[TommyBoy]

Here is the official Maverick hybrid warranty from the Maverick Marketing Team:
"Hybrid powertrain warranty aligns with other Ford hybrids:
3-year/36,000-mile limited warranty
5-year/60,000-mile powertrain warranty
Hybrid-related components have an 8-year/100,000-mile warranty"

 

[larr_bearr]

Is this included or extra

 

[TommyBoy]

Is this included or extra

Included.

 

[Ed Thierbach]

So what part of the powertrain isn't hybrid-related? In other words, what's covered by the 5/60K and what's covered by the 8/100K?

 

[JASmith]

So what part of the powertrain isn't hybrid-related? In other words, what's covered by the 5/60K and what's covered by the 8/100K?

Basically just the battery and battery charging/regulating components, and electric motor in the CVT, and if your battery is below 70% capacity before 8 years/100K miles Ford will tell you to go suck an egg. This is worse than most manufacturers for battery warranties that will replace it if it sees too much degradation, and is basically just covering what is required by federal law as a bare minimum.

https://help.ford.com/warranty/hybrid-electric-vehicle-unique-component-coverage/

8 years/100,000 miles (whichever comes first)
Depending on your vehicle, electric drivetrain system components covered by this warranty may include, and are not limited to:

• High-voltage battery • High-voltage battery connector • High-voltage battery isolation switch (manual disconnect switch) • Battery pack fan assembly • Battery pack sensor module HBPSM) • Battery energy control module (BECM) • On-board charger

• On-board charger fan assembly • Inverter system controller (ISC), DC/DC converter • Hybrid continuously • Variable transmission • Transmission range sensor • Electronic drive module assembly (the electric motor and gearbox).

If an electric drivetrain system component requires replacement under warranty, it may be replaced with a new factory remanufactured, or factory refurbished component, at Ford’s discretion. Refurbished battery components selected for your vehicle will align with your vehicle’s age and mileage, and meet Ford’s stringent requirements and standards.
For important warranty details and exclusions, contact your dealer or see your Warranty Guide.

High Voltage Battery Gradual Capacity Loss
The high voltage battery will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use, similar to all batteries, which is considered normal wear and tear. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
See your Owner’s Manual for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the high voltage battery.

 

[Ed Thierbach]

Refurbished battery components selected for your vehicle will align with your vehicle’s age and mileage

So they'll replace your early-worn-out battery with another aged battery, just to get you through the warranty period. Still, nice to have such a long warranty for the rest of the hybrid parts.

Toyota evidently just extended their battery warranty to 10 years / 150,000 miles. But my spouse doesn't work for Toyota, she works for Ford. And the Maverick still looks pretty awesome, even with the battery warranty hems and haws.

Thanks for the information!

 

[Toddio12]

So they'll replace your early-worn-out battery with another aged battery, just to get you through the warranty period. Still, nice to have such a long warranty for the rest of the hybrid parts.

Toyota evidently just extended their battery warranty to 10 years / 150,000 miles. But my spouse doesn't work for Toyota, she works for Ford. And the Maverick still looks pretty awesome, even with the battery warranty hems and haws.

Thanks for the information!

Autotrader - page unavailable

 

[JASmith]

So they'll replace your early-worn-out battery with another aged battery, just to get you through the warranty period. Still, nice to have such a long warranty for the rest of the hybrid parts.

Ford would probably only warranty it for as long as the powertrain if they had their way, lol! Federal government forces them to provide at least 8 years 100K mile warranty.

Toyota evidently just extended their battery warranty to 10 years / 150,000 miles.

Yup, a few others increased theirs to 10 years too. The best ever is the now discontinued program from Hyundai where they were warrantying batteries for life, no year or mileage limit. Only catch was its the original owner only I think, but if you kept a vehicle 20 years you were golden.

 

[TommyBoy]

Ford would probably only warranty it for as long as the powertrain if they had their way, lol! Federal government forces them to provide at least 8 years 100K mile warranty.

Yup, a few others increased theirs to 10 years too. The best ever is the now discontinued program from Hyundai where they were warrantying batteries for life, no year or mileage limit. Only catch was its the original owner only I think, but if you kept a vehicle 20 years you were golden.

Well, ok.... I'm an IT guy- not a mechanic, but I did run the hybrid stuff by our top mechanics at our Ford dealership. They said the next hybrid battery they replace will be the first one they have replaced- since Ford started hybrids (2005?). They cannot recall having any major issues at all with the hybrid system. I can only take their word, as they do this for a living.

 

[Toddio12]

Just Google "Ford Escape New York Taxi."
Read the articles.
Rest easy.

 

[JASmith]

Well, ok.... I'm an IT guy- not a mechanic, but I did run the hybrid stuff by our top mechanics at our Ford dealership. They said the next hybrid battery they replace will be the first one they have replaced- since Ford started hybrids (2005?). They cannot recall having any major issues at all with the hybrid system. I can only take their word, as they do this for a living.

Exactly, that's a bad sign, not a good sign. There are only a handful of batteries that manufacturers use for automotive applications, often from Samsung, Sony, or Panasonic.

It means that Ford is only abiding by federal law minimums, as it is completely normal for lithium ion batteries to lose capacity over time. As an IT guy, you are likely familiar with how older batteries in cellphones and laptops after a few years no longer hold the same charge as they did when new. The question is not IF they will lose capacity but how much they lose, which depends on a lot of factors. With most manufacturers, they set the 70% of new minimum to qualify for replacement, and sometimes even have a certain amount of extra capacity that they can "unlock" over time to ensure that the expected amount of range doesn't decrease more than 30% of their lifespan.

If Ford isn't replacing batteries at the same rate as Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Hyundai, etc. who are all using the same technology mainstream cells from the three major manufacturers, then it means they are probably only replacing batteries if they completely die, which is rare. But who wants a battery that only has 30% of its new capacity and so returns worse mileage? Not me.

 

[TommyBoy]

Just Google "Ford Escape New York Taxi."
Read the articles.
Rest easy.

I'll rest just fine without google. I have real Ford mechanics that have been at this much longer than myself. I'm good. Thanks though. ;-)

 

[TommyBoy]

Exactly, that's a bad sign, not a good sign. There are only a handful of batteries that manufacturers use for automotive applications, often from Samsung, Sony, or Panasonic.

It means that Ford is only abiding by federal law minimums, as it is completely normal for lithium ion batteries to lose capacity over time. As an IT guy, you are likely familiar with how older batteries in cellphones and laptops after a few years no longer hold the same charge as they did when new. The question is not IF they will lose capacity but how much they lose, which depends on a lot of factors. With most manufacturers, they set the 70% of new minimum to qualify for replacement, and sometimes even have a certain amount of extra capacity that they can "unlock" over time to ensure that the expected amount of range doesn't decrease more than 30% of their lifespan.

If Ford isn't replacing batteries at the same rate as Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, VW, Hyundai, etc. who are all using the same technology mainstream cells from the three major manufacturers, then it means they are probably only replacing batteries if they completely die, which is rare. But who wants a battery that only has 30% of its new capacity and so returns worse mileage? Not me.

I don't get it. The batteries don't appear to be running out ahead of the warranty, and you STILL think that is bad? We'll have to agree to disagree. You didn't order a hybrid, right?

 

[Ed Thierbach]

Cool article on the taxis, and the good words from the Ford mechanics. From the video on the eCVT, doesn't look like a lot of stuff to go wrong internally.

With most manufacturers, they set the 70% of new minimum to qualify for replacement

If you mean battery manufacturers, then Ford's 70% threshold makes a lot of sense. If Ford has to replace batteries early, they'd want to be sure the manufacturer will replace the defective cells.

If I had any real concern, I wouldn't have ordered the hybrid. It just caught my eye that Ford is lagging behind the competition in battery warranty (which is a moot point if they're really reliable anyway)

 

[JASmith]

I don't get it. The batteries don't appear to be running out ahead of the warranty, and you STILL think that is bad? We'll have to agree to disagree. You didn't order a hybrid, right?

Oof, I don't know how much easier I can explain this.

ALL lithium batteries lose capacity over time. Period. End of story. Don't believe me? Ask Ford, they tell you your battery is going to start sucking the older it gets and that unlike most manufacturers they won't cover that under warranty:

High Voltage Battery Gradual Capacity Loss
The high voltage battery will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use, similar to all batteries, which is considered normal wear and tear. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
See your Owner’s Manual for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the high voltage battery.

If you go to a Ford dealership and say "my PHEV Escape is showing half the range it did when new", or putting it into an ODB2 diagnostic tool shows it has only 50% of its new capacity, and Ford tells you to go suck an egg because capacity loss is normal and not covered under warranty, that's not a good warranty.

By contrast if you go to a BMW dealership with your BMW i3 and show that its kMax is at 65% of new, and they run it on a diagnostic tool and it verifies its below 70% of new capacity and thus replace it free of charge, that's a good warranty.

BMW would be replacing far more batteries than Ford, if Ford isn't replacing batteries that have lost some capacity but aren't completely fried, right? That means the manufacturers that replace the same technology and likely cell batteries at a higher rate than Ford probably just have better warranties.

 

[TommyBoy]

Oof, I don't know how much easier I can explain this.

ALL lithium batteries lose capacity over time. Period. End of story. Don't believe me? Ask Ford:

If you go to a Ford dealership and say my PHEV is showing half the range it did when new, or putting it into an ODB2 diagnostic tool shows it has only 50% of its new capacity, and Ford tells you to go suck an egg because capacity loss is normal and not covered under warranty, that's not a good warranty.

By contrast if you go to a BMW dealership with your BMW i3 and show that its kMax is at 65% of new, and they run it on a diagnostic tool and it verifies its below 70% of new capacity and thus replace it free of charge, that's a good warranty.

BMW would be replacing far more batteries than Ford, if Ford isn't replacing batteries that have lost some capacity but aren't completely fried, right? That means the manufacturers that replace the same technology and likely cell batteries at a higher rate than Ford probably just have better warranties.

Not here to debate. I hear you loud and clear. You have an opinion, as do I. Agree to disagree.

 

[JASmith]

Not here to debate. I hear you loud and clear. You have an opinion, as do I. Agree to disagree.

That doesn't work, because its not like discussing which color Maverick is cooler which is subjective, its a question of facts and so there can be no two opinions about it. Your lithium ion battery, PER FORD, will lose capacity. PER FORD, they will not cover that under warranty.

For example, here is a Kia Niro battery warranty:

"The Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery (䳖EV Battery䳗) Capacity warranty coverage period is 8 years or 160,000 kilometres from the Date of First Service, whichever comes first, for capacity loss below 70% of the original battery capacity."

GM on the other hand was getting some bad press for having only a 60% replacement threshold under warranty meaning you could lose up to 40% of your battery capacity and they wouldn't replace it, not good for the consumer.

Why does that matter? Here's a chart of a old Nissan Leaf: Battery Capacity Loss Warranty Chart For 2016 30 kWh Nissan LEAF

If Nissan had a 70% capacity replacement policy, they would be replacing some of their batteries after 6 years or 75K miles If Ford's warranty provides no lower limit whatsoever, that means that in theory your battery could be down to 40% or even lower capacity, considered defective by most manufacturers, but Ford still wouldn't replace it, which would explain why reports show that Ford is never replacing their lithium batteries, which totally makes sense if the warranty is horrible, lol!

Now, no one is saying that your Ford Maverick battery will be under 70% after 8 years, only that if that were to happen, Ford would not cover that under warranty whereas if it were a Hyundai Tucson hybrid or something they would.

 

[Toddio12]

I'll rest just fine without google. I have real Ford mechanics that have been at this much longer than myself. I'm good. Thanks though. ;-)

I was a real Ford mechanic. Senior Master tech and Hybrid certified back in the day. Have owned several Ford hybrids as well, amongst a couple Hondas.
The articles are good and should put to rest any concerns anyone would have with battery life.

 

[Toddio12]

That doesn't work, because its not like discussing which color Maverick is cooler which is subjective, its a question of facts and so there can be no two opinions about it. Your lithium ion battery, PER FORD, will lose capacity. PER FORD, they will not cover that under warranty.

For example, here is a Kia Niro battery warranty:

GM on the other hand was getting some bad press for having only a 60% replacement threshold under warranty meaning you could lose up to 40% of your battery capacity and they wouldn't replace it, not good for the consumer.

Why does that matter? Here's a chart of a old Nissan Leaf: Battery Capacity Loss Warranty Chart For 2016 30 kWh Nissan LEAF
View attachment 1075

If Nissan had a 70% capacity replacement policy, they would be replacing some of their batteries after 6 years or 75K miles If Ford's warranty provides no lower limit whatsoever, that means that in theory your battery could be down to 40% or even lower capacity, considered defective by most manufacturers, but Ford still wouldn't replace it, which would explain why reports show that Ford is never replacing their lithium batteries, which totally makes sense if the warranty is horrible, lol!

Now, no one is saying that your Ford Maverick battery will be under 70% after 8 years, only that if that were to happen, Ford would not cover that under warranty whereas if it were a Hyundai Tucson hybrid or something they would.

First you seem to imply that the hybrid will suck because 'batteries bad!'
The system is designed to run at 100% efficiency even if the battery is at 70%. Why? Because that is how it is designed.
So now you state your only concern is that Died doesn't warranty the component very long, so there must be a problem with it. Yet you can go talk to Ford tech after tech and fleet after fleet and ask how many batteries they've had to replace at any mileage, and the answer is none. So why does it matter what the warranty is on a component that has not had a history of failure, and in fact quite the opposite?
You seem to want to make an argument just for the sake of arguing.

 

[JASmith]

First you seem to imply that the hybrid will suck because 'batteries bad!'

Your reading comprehension is abysmal if that is what you understood. I didn't say the batteries are bad, I said the warranty coverage from Ford on the battery is inferior to other manufacturers, which isn't opinion, its fact. You can't agree to disagree about what the Ford warranty coverage is when I've copied and pasted and provided a link. Its like saying you don't agree that 2+2=4, as if people can have differing valid opinions on the answer.

The system is designed to run at 100% efficiency even if the battery is at 70%. Why? Because that is how it is designed.

You don't know what you are talking about. The more energy that the battery in a hybrid vehicle can store, the more it can release back to improve fuel economy. Think of the hybrid battery as the electric equivalent of a mini gas tank, so when you step on the brakes going down a big hill for example, it starts to fill up that tank with gas until its full, so when you reach the bottom of the hill you can use that stored "free" gasoline to drive further. If that mini gas tank shrunk to half its size, the maximum it can store is halved and your fuel economy will drop accordingly.

Yet you can go talk to Ford tech after tech and fleet after fleet and ask how many batteries they've had to replace at any mileage, and the answer is none.

Which is exactly my point, bringing us full circle to post # 11. If Ford's warranty doesn't cover normal battery degradation, then of course they aren't replacing batteries. Its completely normal that lithium batteries degrade with age, but they rarely completely fail. A hybrid with a degraded battery will still drive just like normal, but it would see decreased fuel economy from new as the only symptom.