NO. You failed to read my whole response. I am not derating the 4K towing limit; I am pointing out that the 4K rating is based upon a single passenger (along with a driver) and no further weight of kind being carried in the Maverick. That is an unrealistic scenario, although certainly possible under limited circumstances. Given the platform (unibody) limitations of the Maverick, its curb weight of less than 3,800 lbs, along with braking limitations, I would not be confident to tow more than 3,000 lbs nor have a tongue load that ever exceeded 300 lbs. In an emergency, I would not feel safe trying to control more than 3,000 lbs behind me. You are certainly free to take whatever risk you are willing to accept and be fully liable for the consequences. Charts are indeed informative but when you have to suddenly control a trailer that weighs more than the tow vehicle, the charts are no longer of any assistance.Are you essentially de-rating the 4,000 lb capacity based on the trailer frontal area? You're totally right that frontal area will have an impact, I'm just not sure the best way to factor this into my analysis. It almost seems like Ford has factored that in already. 4,000 lb & 40 sq. ft. - don't exceed either, but it's rated up to both simultaneously. Suggestions?
Here's what Ford has to say about it:
View attachment 3841
On another note, Ford also says:
View attachment 3842
I didn't factor this in either.
From 1984 through about 2004, I testified in 17 civil trials (16 jury and 1 bench) in California courts (state and federal), regarding tire, wheel, and suspensions modifications, relative to serious vehicle accidents. Some of these cases also involved accidents with trailers (I recall the number was 3). Defendants (along withe their counsel) showed up at every one of these cases with charts attempting to argue that tire, wheel, suspension modifications, and towing circumstances, were not contributory to the accidents. The juries, in every case but 2, found otherwise. The real world reality is that towing a trailer that exceeds the weight of the tow vehicle is problematic. In an emergency, these problems are vastly accentuated. The Ford Maverick is simply not capable of safely towing the load you anticipate, especially when a sudden maneuver is required to avoid an accident; your fault or not.Oh I see what you're saying. This is actually accounted for in the chart. At the 4,000 lb trailer weight, the maximum payload allowed is ~400-450 lb. The payload includes all passengers and cargo, so it aligns with what you're saying - a driver and single passenger. If you want to carry more passengers or cargo, then you need to reduce the trailer weight according to the dashed red line to stay inside the operating envelope.
I really don't understand what you're getting at. I'm not anticipating, advising, or encouraging anything outside the OEM's recommendations. Are you saying that Ford is overrating their vehicle? Is their test method not to be trusted?
I'm directly looking at the manufacturer's published data and trying to display it in a useful way for people to make safe, informed decisions. It seems like you're just making a blanket statement that the Maverick isn't capable of what the OEM states. Would you rather people look at and understand the manufacturer's data and make data-driven decisions, or make a decision based on some guy's opinion who participated in a (maybe jury, maybe bench, maybe state, maybe federal) court case at least 17 years before the Maverick was released?
What part of "MATTER CONCLUDED" are you wrestling with? I have no intention of further engaging with an amateur with a chart, when I was deemed an expert in 17 trials involving serious vehicles accidents. I have now clearly stated what risk I am prepared to assume and you have clearly stated your assumptions.I'm really not trying to get into a pissing match here. The intent of my post was to illustrate the data in a useful way, but apparently that's not cool?
It's totally fine if you personally don't feel comfortable towing more than 3,000 lb. But don't go around saying the Maverick isn't capable of more and not having anything to back it up. Can you show me your calculations? I can't help but wonder, if Ford said the max towing capacity was 5,000 lb, would your "calculation" conclude that 4,000 lb is safe?
Anyway, I find this chart helpful, and I hope it's useful to somebody else if they're trying to figure out how much they can load their pickup and stay within the OEM's ratings.
Just remembered, you can reach out to Steven Croley at FORD (General Counsel); he can vouch for my expertise. Get his number at Ford Corporate."Trust me I'm an expert."
Good. I was admitted by the court in each of these civil 17 cases under Code Civ. Proc. § 2034.010, et seq. (not sure of any changes to these statutes over the years). As you must know, such expert testimony is usually subject to a Evid. Code §402 hearing, before trial commences, and I recall such a hearing being held in each of these 17 cases in advance of trial. Also, as is usual, defendant's counsel opposed my testimony in each and every one of these cases. I am sure that I have the file for each of these cases stored in my garage. In each file will be found my curriculum vitae (at that time) along with my specific application to each court at the time I was disclosed by plaintiff's counsel as an expert. I can make time for you to inspect these documents at my home although it is important to note that some of these files are very large. I also should have a reporter's transcript of my specific trial testimony for each case. In response to this post, please include your phone number so that I may contact you to make these arrangements. Special note: as some of the documents in these files are likely confidential, I will need you to execute a non-disclosure agreement before inspecting the files. I can send one in advance of your visit. I am located in Northern California.
When you reach Steve, that would be a good opportunity to discuss the legal issues connected with FORD's recommendations for Maverick towing capacities.Just remembered, you can reach out to Steven Croley at FORD (General Counsel); he can vouch for my expertise. Get his number at Ford Corporate.
Spoke to Steve Croley about an hour ago as he was leaving for the day (5pm Michigan time) He will have somebody from Ford legal call you this Friday. I need to call his office in the morning and give them the number.When you reach Steve, that would be a good opportunity to discuss the legal issues connected with FORD's recommendations for Maverick towing capacities.
As an initial issue, our conversation came to an end hours ago. My recent responses have been to Schobz, not you. I have no intention of engaging someone so childish as exhibited in this recent post. As I stated 8 hours ago........"What part of "MATTER CONCLUDED" are you wrestling with? I have no intention of further engaging with an amateur with a chart, when I was deemed an expert in 17 trials involving serious vehicles accidents. I have now clearly stated what risk I am prepared to assume and you have clearly stated your assumptions"And what's legal gonna say? "Yes, technically we rate the Maverick at 4,000 lb towing capacity. But it's actually only good for 3,000 lb because we LOVE lawsuits." I mean, come on, man. Just drop it already.
I'm all for a constructive conversation around the Maverick's ability. And people's past experience is valid and relevant to talk about, so I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the topic. But when we start speaking in absolutes with no supporting data then it just becomes "he said" "she said" and nobody wins.
Like I said in my original post, let me know if you spot a mistake! I'm more than happy to correct any errors in my analysis.
